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| Address URL | http://scienceblogs.com/tfk/ Registered: 31-Mar-2008 |
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Send to email | Another thought on marriage in Policy and Politics | By Thoughts el 17-Nov-2008 | Martin Cothran jokes:
Are the issues of same-sex marriage and interracial marriage the same kind of issue? Well, we could be smart alecky and point out that one has issue and the other doesn't, but we won't settle for that. This is an example of a joke that isn't a joke; joking-but-for-real, if you will. He's waving off a stupid comment as a joke, but the bad joke reveals something mildly significant, and it's worth digging into.
"You can't amend our family": Paste this image in your site, Myspace, Facebook, Ebay copy this code...
The idea that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because they can't have children is a hoary argument, and many people seem to find it compelling. Indeed, if we're obsessing over definitions of marriage, we can note that a Scottish law in 1754 provided that "A marriage, though of the longest continuance, gives no right to the courtesy, if there was no issue of it." So the "traditional" definition of marriage requires people to have offspring.
I find that interesting. My grandfather died before I was born, and my grandmother remarried. While she and her new husband both had children from previous marriages, they were in their 70s when they wed, and thus that union produced no issue.
I think that they should be considered to have been married, even though that seems to require a redefinition of marriage. I think that post-menopausal women should be allowed to marry, as should infertile men and women, not to mention people who choose not to have children for their own personal reasons. Ancient Scottish law may disagree, but ancient Scottish law can go back to sheep-buggery for all I care.
Whenever I hear someone say that marriage is about procreation, I think of my grandmother. Not just because she is a counterexample, but because her example of calm, quiet, and loving outreach to others is a good guide. I know that she would stand up for her right to marry the man she loved, the man who loved her children and grandchildren like they were his own, and whose children and grandchildren she loved like her own.
I also know that she would have stood up for her rights firmly, but with elegance and quiet grace. I may not always live up to that standard, but I certainly will keep trying. Then again, no one ever put her marriage on the ballot.
Mike and Dave get married: Paste this image in your site, Myspace, Facebook, Ebay copy this code...
Updated to add: I also think of the people I meet at rallies who have been together for 30 years, through thick and thin, but who cannot marry now (or may be forcibly divorced), and I compare them to the blithe ease with which Britney Spears got married, or the ease with which my own parents were wed. The wedding was scheduled around a business trip which brought both of them into the vicinity of my (other) grandparents, and the whole thing was arranged in what sounds like record time. There wasn't any cause for hurry (I was born two years later), that was just the time that worked best for everyone.
I compare that simplicity to what my friend Mike Silverman and his husband have gone through. They have been married at least three times, in Canada, in Massachusetts, and in California, where he unfurled the flag of his native Kansas on the steps of San Francisco's city hall. Even so, his marriage is not recognized in Kansas, and the status even of the domestic partnership they have under a city law in Lawrence is tenuous and overly limited.
Sharon and Amber get married: Paste this image in your site, Myspace, Facebook, Ebay copy this code...
Similarly, I think of friends I recently met through my girlfriend. Sharon and Amber got married in San Francisco this year, and had been married several other times in several other states before their own home state was prepared to grant them their basic civil rights.
You cannot question the commitment of these people. The hoops that Sharon and Amber, Dave and Mike had to go through to enjoy a right we all take for granted is stunning.
When my grandmother went on her first date with my grandfather, they went across state lines, too. They were both widowers, and neither was sure about dating again. Plus, they didn't want to be seen by people they knew.
But when they got married, it was in LaPorte, IN, their hometown. While being seen on that first date could have been cause for malicious gossip, their marriage was something to celebrate in their home town, with their family and friends. Everyone deserves that same freedom. Read the comments on this post...
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 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| Another thought on marriage | Martin Cothran jokes:
Are the issues of same-sex marriage and interracial marriage the same kind of issue? Well, we could be smart alecky and point out that one has issue and the other doesn't, but we won't settle for that.This is an example of a joke that isn't a joke; joking-but-for-real, if you will. He's waving off a stupid comment as a joke, but the bad joke [..] Read complete article |  | Published 17-Nov-2008 by Thoughts in Policy and Politics Read 32 times. More hits in  |
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 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| On marriage | | Joel Mathis is upset with the National Review. The conservative journal responds to last week's ruling against the federal Defense of Marriage Act, an act that blocks legal recognition of legal marriages between same-sex couples, by arguing:
If heterosexual coupling did not regularly produce children there would be no reason for the institution of marriage to exist, let alone [..] Read complete article |  | Published 14-Jul-2010 by Thoughts in Policy and Politics Read 23 times. More hits in  |
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 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| More on marriage in California | | Former congressman Jim Ryun's baby boy Ned opines on marriage equality in California. He calls for state and federal constitutional amendments, saying:
if the other side on this debate wants to push their agenda down our throats thru the judicial system, we push back.But what, exactly, is being pushed down his throat? How does it affect him whether a gay couple [..] Read complete article |  | Published 22-May-2008 by Thoughts in Policy and Politics Read 26 times. More hits in  |
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 | Kotaku`s The Gamers Guide | Blogger | XBOX 360 Gamers Weblog
Gossip, news and leaks for obsessive gamers Kotaku As if you don't waste enough of your time in a gamer's haze, here's Kotaku: a gamer's guide that goes beyond the press release. Gossip, cheats, criticism, design, nostalgia, pred |
 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| Marriage equality in California | | California is set to join Massachusetts as a hotbed for equality:
Same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry, the California Supreme Court ruled Thursday.
The court’s 4-to-3 decision striking down state laws that had limited marriages to unions between a man and a woman makes California only the second state, after Massachusetts, to allow same-sex marr [..] Read complete article |  | Published 15-May-2008 by Thoughts in Policy and Politics Read 33 times. More hits in  |
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 | Kotaku`s The Gamers Guide | Blogger | XBOX 360 Gamers Weblog
Gossip, news and leaks for obsessive gamers Kotaku As if you don't waste enough of your time in a gamer's haze, here's Kotaku: a gamer's guide that goes beyond the press release. Gossip, cheats, criticism, design, nostalgia, pred |
 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| Disco. Inst. blogger: Ban marriage | | Martin Cothran, blogger for the Disco. Inst., opposes gay marriage, and wonders:
If their relationships are already stable, then why do they need to be stabilized?Compelling logic. Clearly, marriage is useless.
Of course, evidence suggests that marriage actually does have a stabilizing effect on people. And gay people, it turns out, are people, too. [..] Read complete article |  | Published 21-Jun-2008 by Thoughts in Policy and Politics Read 38 times. More hits in  |
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 | Joystiq | Blogger | Covers video game news from an independent, unbiased perspective Joystiq Joystiq |
| Put your thoughts on marriage into a Catherine trailer | |
Atlus is giving fans the opportunity to participate in a Catherine trailer, which will then be used to market the game to ... well, those same fans, really. The publisher is soliciting video responses to the following three questions:
D [..] Read complete article |  | Published 13-Apr-2011 by JC Fletcher in atluscatherinemicrosoftplaystationps3trailerxbox Read 16 times. More hits in  |
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