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Send to email | Simple Answers To Stupider Questions in Policy and Politics | By Thoughts el 13-Nov-2008 | As part of our multi-part colloquy regarding whether Martin Cothran is, in fact, a gigantic bigot for wanting to take away marriages from 18,000 gay people married in California, the Disco. Inst. blogger wonders:
Isn't the whole debate about whether they are marriages in the first place? No.
As they say:
PROP 8: ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME–SEX COUPLES TO MARRY. But really, all you need to know about Cothran comes from this sentence, which is wrong in about a brazillion ways:
Josh Rosenau, who teaches at the ever more ludicrous National Association for Science Education (NASE) and… First, I am not a teacher. I do like to think that I educate people, but I also like to think that words mean things, so I wouldn't refer to myself as a teacher. Second, we are known as NCSE, and if Sesame Street teaches us nothing else, "C" stands for cookie. I, therefore, work for the National Cookie for Science Education; that's good enough for me. I wrote the previous post in the Salt Lake City airport, and wrote this one in a hotel in Idaho. These opinions reflect the position of NACSE to the same extent they represent that of the Mormon Church and the Red Lion Hotel.
Cothran later insists:
Same-sex couples were never able to marry precisely because marriage was always understood to be--by definition--between a man and a woman. Um. And also. You see. Because.
Oh, and Martin, the word isn't "miscagenation." It's "miscegenation." HTH, HAND.
Finally, this:
Interracial marriage never violated the definition of the word "marriage." The argument in miscagenation [sic] was that people of different races shouldn't be married because of whatever racist belief that is based on. The argument in same-sex marriage is that people of the same sex literally can't be married because that not even what marriage is. I dunno, because the Virginia law said:
It shall hereafter be unlawful for any white person in this State to marry any save a white person, or a person with no other admixture of blood than white and American Indian. For the purpose of this act, the term "white person" shall apply only to the person who has no trace whatsoever of any blood other than Caucasian; which seems to define marriage to exclude inter-racial marriage. And when a governor asked the Registar of Vital Statistics (responsible for enforcing these rules) to ease off on Native Americans, the Registrar replied that "I am unable to see how it is working any injustice upon them or humiliation for our office to take a firm stand against their intermarriage with white people, or to the preliminary steps of recognition as Indians with permission to attend white schools and to ride in white coaches." Thus, the anti-miscegenation laws are as just as Martin Cothran is not a bigot.
Similarly, a California law overturned in 1948 stated that “All marriages of white persons with negroes, Mongolians, members of the Malay race, or mulattoes are illegal and void.” Sounds like a definition of marriage based on race, doesn't it.?
What ever became of those laws…
Oh, yeah:
Marriage is one of the 'basic civil rights of man,' fundamental to our very existence and survival. To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as … embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious … discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry or not marry, a person … resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State. Yes, I omitted some explicit references to race from 1967's Loving v. Virginia. If Cothran wants to justify the claim that racial discrimination is different from anti-gay discrimination, that's fine, but he has to make an actual argument.
The law in California was overturned in 1948 on the basis that "Marriage is thus something more than a civil contract subject to regulation by the state; it is a fundamental right of free men. There can be no prohibition of marriage except for an important social objective and by reasonable means." The 1948 Court added: "the right to marry is the right to join in marriage with the person of one’s choice." Note that I've omitted no explicit references to race.
I note also that this 1948 definition of marriage does not include any reference to sexuality. Furthermore, no one, Cothran or otherwise, has offered "an important social objective" which is served by taking away the right of certain people to marry based on their sexuality. It is bigotry, plain and simple.
And that's what the California Supreme Court ruled earlier this year:
our state now recognizes that an individual’s capacity to establish a loving and long-term committed relationship with another person and responsibly to care for and raise children does not depend upon the individual’s sexual orientation, and, more generally, that an individual’s sexual orientation — like a person’s race or gender — does not constitute a legitimate basis upon which to deny or withhold legal rights. We therefore conclude that in view of the substance and significance of the fundamental constitutional right to form a family relationship, the California Constitution properly must be interpreted to guarantee this basic civil right to all Californians, whether gay or heterosexual, and to same-sex couples as well as to opposite-sex couples. That works for me, and I hope that the Court will rule that this basic constitutional right cannot be taken away by a majority vote. If Cothran doesn't want to be called a bigot, I invite him to suggest an alternative that captures his prejudiced and intolerant attitude toward his fellow human beings. Unlike "faggot," though, "bigot" is not considered a pejorative slur. Furthermore, a gay person is not "1. A bundle of sticks, twigs, or small branches of trees bound together" (OED). Read the comments on this post...
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 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| Simple Answers To Stupider Questions | | As part of our multi-part colloquy regarding whether Martin Cothran is, in fact, a gigantic bigot for wanting to take away marriages from 18,000 gay people married in California, the Disco. Inst. blogger wonders:
Isn't the whole debate about whether they are marriages in the first place?No.
As they say:
PROP 8: ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME [..] Read complete article |  | Published 13-Nov-2008 by Thoughts in Policy and Politics Read 19 times. More hits in  |
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 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| Simple answers to insulting questions | | My friend Chris Mooney wonders about critical reviews of Sizzle:
Could it be that, for some of these hypercritical bloggers, Randy Olson's documentarian character in Sizzle is really their reflection in the mirror? After all, the character is basically a caricature of someone who repeatedly demands facts, facts, facts, and can't relate to non-scientists, have a good l [..] Read complete article |  | Published 21-Jul-2008 by Thoughts in Policy and Politics Read 24 times. More hits in  |
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 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| Simple answers to stupid questions | | Disco. Inst. blogger and staff member for the Kentucky affiliate of Focus on the Family wonders:
Are gay rights groups turning into hate groups?No.
This has been your simple answer to another stupid question.
Cothran's argument is actually much stupider than it might seem:
Read the rest of this post... | Read the comments on this post... [..] Read complete article |  | Published 12-Nov-2008 by Thoughts in Policy and Politics Read 24 times. More hits in  |
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 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| Simple answers to stupid, offensive, intolerable questions | Disco. DJ Bruce Chapman wonders Does Obamacare Provide for Euthanasia?
No.
This is the simple answer to that stupid, offensive, and intolerable question.
Here's Chapman's claim in all its glory:
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 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| Simple answers to stupid, point-missing questions | | Sam Harris has a brand new blog, and already has managed to lard it with roughly what you'd expect: tendentiousness, insistence that religious is wrong because it won't change (and that religions which do change are illegitimate for doing so), and the usual pro-repression politics.
Referring to Florida's Pastor Jones, who finally burnt a Quran after spending the last year thre [..] Read complete article |  | Published 02-Apr-2011 by Thoughts in Culture Wars Read 24 times. More hits in  |
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| Best Buy answers questions on Palm Pre day | We?ve been getting an enormous response to the news that Best Buy?s Palm Pres will go for $100 less (well, basically) and we hit up Best Buy to try and get some answers on various questions you guys have been asking. Straight Talk Express style. Hit the jump for some possibly valuable info that could [...] [..] Read complete article |  | Published 20-May-2009 by The Boy Genius in FeaturesHandsetsInterviewsPalmRetailSprintWebOSBest Buyexclusiveinterviewpre Read 29 times. More hits in  |
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 | Thoughts From Kansas | Blogger | Weblog of a University of Kansas ecology and evolutionary biology student, fighting for progressive politics, evolution, and endangered species. Thoughts from Kansas You will notice that it lacks definiteness; that it lacks purpose; that it lacks coherence; that it lacks a subject to talk about; that it is loose and wabbly; that it wanders around; that |
| Scientific answers to silly questions | | Last weekend, Chris Mooney and Genie Scott squared off against PZ Myers and Vic Stenger at the Council for Secular Humanism's 30th anniversary bash. The question was something to do with whether accommodationism is teh awsum or teh lamez0rs. You know my opinion, and from what I saw of the discussion, I don't think anyone emerged the undisputed victor, and thus the internet will never run out of [..] Read complete article |  | Published 11-Oct-2010 by Thoughts in General Read 19 times. More hits in  |
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 | Joystiq | Blogger | Covers video game news from an independent, unbiased perspective Joystiq Joystiq |
| Jay Cohen answers 10 Questions from the Academy | Introducing 10 Questions from the Academy: A weekly feature from the Academy of Interactive Arts & Sciences wherein significant figures in the video game industry provide their input on past trends, current events, and future challenges and goals for the entertainment software community.
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